Idunn guards the apples that the Aesir need to stay young forever; without them, the Norse gods would age and die.
Last Tuesday’s article got me thinking about the way different people define “god.†Not WHO g/God is (Odin, Jehovah, The Great Spirit, Allah, etc), but WHAT g/God is. If “god†was a species (or a character type in an RPG, complete with stats!*) how would you describe it? It seems like we spend so much time arguing over g/God’s brand name, we never get to discussing the ingredients. I suspect if you ask two people who worship the same god to describe what it is they worship, they’d come up with completely different answers.
So I thought it would be interesting to conduct a survey of The Realm to see what The Court (that would be YOU, our illustrious readers) mean when you say the word “g/God.†Everyone can play! Atheists typically know what it is they DON’T believe in just as well as theists know what they DO believe in. (i.e. I can describe a unicorn even though I don’t believe they exist.) I have provided a list of “guiding questions†to help steer the conversation, but feel free to add to the list as you see fit or drop questions that don’t make sense with your concept of g/God.
Remember! This is not about WHO you believe in (I challenge you to respond without mentioning a name) nor is it about what the dictionary says “god†means nor what you think the general population means by the word. What I’m looking for is WHAT YOU PERSONALLY are referring to when you say I believe (or don’t believe) in “g/God(s).†For the sake of my fingers retyping g/G every time, I’m going to stick with lowercase “gâ€, but feel free to capitalize or not as you see fit in your answer. In keeping with the idea of “god†as a species, I will use the plural in the questions, just like I would were I referring to honey badgers or whatever. Again, feel free to use plural or singular in your responses.
- Were gods here at the beginning of time (whatever that means to you) or were they born/created?
- Are they anthropomorphic (i.e. do they have a form they can appear in, human, animal, or other)? Do gods have a gender?
- Are gods omniscient (know everything) and/or omnipotent (can do anything)?
- Are gods personal (i.e. can you relate to them as you relate to a human)? Do they have personalities?
- Do gods have emotions and logic, or are they beyond that sort of humanity? Are they self-aware (i.e. does a god recognize its existence as an individual or collective entity; is it sentient)?
- Are gods immanent (within everything), transcendent (within everything and at the same time beyond everything), or their own separate entities? If gods are transcendent or separate, how many are there?
- Are gods necessarily good? Evil? Neutral? Do gods ever make mistakes?
- Can gods die?
- Do gods interact with humanity or do they wait for us to interact with them? Or are they inaccessible to us? Do gods listen to/answer prayers?
- Anything else I didn’t cover that’s important to your definition?
- For the sake of context, what is your religion? (Pagan, Christian, atheist, etc.)
It should go without saying (but I’ll say it anyway) – this is NOT a forum for trying to convince other people your definition is the “right†one, and it is most definitely not the right forum to belittle somebody else’s ideas or beliefs! Questions for other commenters are cool, but any comments (or questions) that are evangelizing or demeaning will be deleted by moi personally. Let’s keep it fun and educational!
I look forward to reading your answers!
* Yes, I play table-top RPGs; have since I was in college, and plan on continuing to play for the rest of my life. It’s an awesome way to get together with good friends, good food, and write stories! But that’s a different article…
+ Featured Image: Weighting of the Heart from The Book of the Dead of Ani
18 comments
Diandra says:
Sep 13, 2011
Hmpf, that’s a tough one. I think the energy from which the gods come has always been there, but the gods themselves may have appeared at different times throughout history. My theory is that gods are somehow called/made by humans, and in response a part of that divine energy becomes that special deity energy the people believe in. And if people stop believing in or praying to that special deity, it may go to sleep/fall into a coma and finally disappear and be sucked up into that divine energy again. As a consequence – I was a huge fan of the “they are all aspects of the same deity” principle, until my personal experience proved me wrong. Different gods and goddesses do have different personalities, and most of the ones I have interacted with do have a gender. I don’t know if they are omniscient (although I suspect they are) or if they can make mistakes (if yes, they can cover them up pretty well). And as for the whole ruckus concerning “good” and “evil” – I’d say they just *are*, and that is pretty cool all in itself. ^^
(I am a polytheist witch, complete with pointy hat and broom.)
SushiQ says:
Sep 13, 2011
This is tough. I may have to do some thinking and a blog post. These are great questions!
Charles says:
Sep 13, 2011
Context: Christian (unicorns were the direct cause of Noah’s carnivores-only-no-prey-allowed deck)
This might sound definition-y, but hopefully you’ll give me the benefit of the doubt: omnipotent, omniscient (is that included in omnipotent?), omnibenevolent. If not the first two, God is just a mad scientist creator, which is still impressive, but not so much worship-worthy. If not the last, life is a fickle thing at its core.
Charles says:
Sep 13, 2011
A follow-up to answer your questions that I didn’t address there:
–I have a feeling omnipotence includes beyond-time so I don’t know if the created/just here distinction has meaning we can understand. I don’t think death/ceasing-to-be applies to God.
–God is a single being similar to us in ways that allow anyone to relate personally, but whether that has any physical/gender meaning is beyond me.
–Omniscient definitely includes self-awareness, and omnibenevolent implies an emotional presence and attachment. And I assume any intelligent being has to have logic, but then I’m a programmer.
–God created all and knows all about all (I like using “all” a lot) so it doesn’t matter to me if God is physically with or separate from everything else, but regardless there is a distinct God entity.
–God reaches out to interact but not always (perhaps even most of the time) in ways we understand. I believe God listens to prayers, but answering 7 billion individual wishes would result in the farce depicted in Bruce Almighty – prayer is not a vending machine. I wish I understood better how the interaction works, but I’m definitely a work in progress.
I can tell a lot of my answers are from late-night meandering conversations – I don’t know how much of this I could defend systematically, but I’m going with my gut reactions. I hope I don’t offend anyone.
Jax says:
Sep 13, 2011
Charles: Nothing you said is offensive in the least. I really enjoyed reading your response; I love “prayer is not a vending machine.” (And I got a SERIOUS kick out of the unicorn story! HA!)
Diandra: That’s really cool; I had heard before the idea of gods manifested by mankind, but the way you put it with the idea of coming from The All is new to me and makes a lot of sense.
SushiQ: Thanks! I look forward to reading what you have to say; if you write a blog entry about it, I’d love for you to come back to the comments and post a link (and point your readers back here so we can see what their answers are as well!).
T.K. says:
Sep 15, 2011
I don’t know about God or gods?
Earth, the mother of all living things
Wind, the breath that keeps us alive
And fire, the burning of passion and desire
Water, the blood that quenches life’s strife
Faith, the hereafter promise, for which we strive
Jax says:
Sep 15, 2011
I love reading your poems TK! Keep writing them!!!
Brad Sullivan says:
Sep 18, 2011
I love the idea of Earth as the mother of all things. On the one hand, I don’t think Earth created the universe, but I do think that all things that matter to us come from the earth. Our connection to the earth is lost to me when I think of it as one planet in the vast universe. Thank you for the reminder that she is our mother.
T.K. says:
Sep 15, 2011
There is a question I’ve been wanting to ask and just not sure when to ask it since it doesn’t relate directly to this post.
I noticed that you and GG were wearing neck bands (necklaces??) that match the tiara on your logo, at your one year anniversary party.
I am curious about the significance of the design and whether or not it is a Pagan Princess’s original or a long standing pagan design?
Jax says:
Sep 15, 2011
There’s no wrong time to ask a question! 🙂 (But then you knew I’d say that, didn’t you?)
The triple moon is a goddess symbol, usually used in Wicca (you don’t see it a lot in Heathenry, but we think it’s pretty, so we get to wear it, too – princess prerogative). It represents the phases of the moon – waxing, full, and waning – but it is also associated with the three phases of womankind – maiden, mother, and crone – and the frequent appearance in ancient European religion of a triple goddess – like the Morrigan in Celtic myth, Hekate in Greek myth, and the Matres in Germanic myth. So it’s definitely not a TPP original, but we sure think Billy did a nice job including it in his rendering of our mascot
Brisingamen!
T.K. says:
Sep 16, 2011
Ah, yes, I knew you would say that. I also should have realized the necklace was Brisingamen. The story of Freya and the dwarfs. Geez! At least I know to Jax or GG instead of Google when I want answers.
Michelann says:
Sep 18, 2011
I experience God as everything or the Universe – Brahman. The universe is a physical manifestation of Brahman – my sense is Brahman existed before linear time. I believe I am a manifestation of Brahman, but I have individual consciousness (or the illusion of it, at least) that makes me think of myself as separate. Brahman makes itself known to me through synchronicity, dreams, and teachers, and epiphany. I think any kind of prayer or meditation can help manifest desires because it opens me up to the infinite possibilities that exist all the time, whether or not I sense them. I think some people experience god as anthropomorphic and some don’t, but this may change at any time. I think God is interacting all the time, but I’m not always tuned in (like a radio station!). My religion (or the closest thing to it ) is Vedanta.
Brad Sullivan says:
Sep 18, 2011
To begin, I’d like to start with a healthy dose of I don’t know and it’s all speculation. Some of my thoughts are original, and some are adopted from others’ ideas with which I connected. Ok, I feel better.
Regarding my concept of God, it is, first, Aristotle’s unmoved mover. I also like Anselm’s concept: “that than which nothing greater can be conceived.” So, neither born, nor created, just always around. If God had a beginning, I would ask, “what started it?”
Regarding gender, I think of God as having both genders, male and female (and any countless other genders there may be on other worlds or other dimensions). I think of God as father and mother. I don’t think God is (ok, so with all this singular writing, I’m going with one god) anthropomorphic, but I think God can and likely does anthropomorphize itself for our sake.
Emotions, logic, sentient, or beyond all of that? Yes.
I figure god can do anything it wants, but seems to limit itself regarding free will – God could prevent anyone from ever doing any harm, but then God would prevent us from truly ever loving. Without the choice not to love, we cannot chose to love.
Does God know everything? Sure? I guess so? Then again, I think we have total free will. Our decisions are not set before make them, and that’s where the dog is buried.
I think god can be very personal. I think of personalities of God or persons of God, as emanations from God (here’s where I take from Jewish mysticism and the 10 Sefirot of God.)
God is all. Beyond everything. In and part of everything. So again, one God with many emanations, in, through, and beyond creation.
I think of all multiple Gods in a similar way (emanations). Conversely, other God’s could be diving beings made by God to govern creation. In which case they are good (but could turn bad?) and could possibly die. I loved Neil Gaiman’s idea of Gods dying via lack of belief in them. I don’t know that I’d say I believe it exactly or yet, but I’m fascinated with the possibility and the beauty of the idea. I also like the idea of multiple Gods which are independent beings but which area also all in unity as one god. So, maybe.
I have a hard time saying God can make mistakes, and at the same time, why not? My question is, can God fix it’s mistakes?
I think God is accessible to us and that some people are more able of connecting to God than others, like some are better at singing or running fast than others. I think God answers prayer, but not like a gum ball machine. The answer is often “no”, or perhaps more importantly, the answer is often and invitation to journey, change, and let go.
I’m a Christian and Episcopal priest.
GG says:
Sep 19, 2011
I also like the concept that gods fade as belief in them diminishes. I first read it in Small Gods by Terry Pratchett.
Wait…
I guess my first introduction to this concept was the movie The Never Ending Story. Though it wasn’t about believing in gods. Still, the Nothing that exists in the absence of faith is a pretty profound concept.
Brad Sullivan says:
Sep 20, 2011
Ooh, I love that idea. Gods diminishing back into the nothing as faith in them ends. Faith in Gods draws them from the nothing in the first place..the nothing being the God beyond all creation. Cool.
SilverThunderbird says:
Sep 23, 2011
I want to start by saying that I am entirely eclectic, I believe what I believe for a reason, and I appreciate your opportunity to express thoughts. Always a pleasant experience. 🙂
1. Were gods here at the beginning of time (whatever that means to you) or were they born/created? I believe gods (personified) were here at the beginning of humanity. I believe that Humans created them for a specific need, be it to understand themselves, or to understand their surroundings.
2. Are they anthropomorphic (i.e. do they have a form they can appear in, human, animal, or other)? Do gods have a gender? Gods can be anything humans have created them to be. Shape-shifters included. And yes, definitely both genders.
3. Are gods omniscient (know everything) and/or omnipotent (can do anything)? If they were created or envisioned that way then yes. Even if they are envisioned that way by any person. They will be so for that person.
4. Are gods personal (i.e. can you relate to them as you relate to a human)? Do they have personalities? Yes, absolutely. Gods may be as personal or as distant as one wishes them to be. As for personalities, yes, I believe they do. If I think of Venus or Diana or Thor, they all have very different personalities. If gods didn’t have personalities, it would be harder for us as humans to connect with them.
5. Do gods have emotions and logic, or are they beyond that sort of humanity? Are they self-aware (i.e. does a god recognize its existence as an individual or collective entity; is it sentient)? this is a tough one for me, I believe that to a point, yes, gods have emotions. Gods of creation, less emotions. Gods of situations (such as those who historically battle the underworld for love etc) tend to have more emotions. Logic, yes, I see gods as very logical. as for self aware, I am unsure. 😉
6. Are gods immanent (within everything), transcendent (within everything and at the same time beyond everything), or their own separate entities? If gods are transcendent or separate, how many are there? I believe they are separate entities, some which are immanent, some which are transcendent, But All entirely individual.
7. Are gods necessarily good? Evil? Neutral? Do gods ever make mistakes? I believe all true gods in their rightful places are neutral. I also don’t believe in black magick or white magick, but only in the intent.
8. Can gods die? Only if they are forgotten.
9. Do gods interact with humanity or do they wait for us to interact with them? Or are they inaccessible to us? Do gods listen to/answer prayers? I believe that Gods may be called upon for assistance, guidance, advice, solace, protection. Yes I believe gods answer prayers, however, I do not believe that they hand out miracles like trick or treat candy, nor grant wishes like a genie. In all of my workings and prayers, I end them with ‘if it is Your will, so mote it be’, meaning, ‘this is my wish, please assist me if you feel it is the right thing to do’. Generally, if I’ve done my homework and the working is on the up-and-up, I get the assistance I ask for.
Anything else I didn’t cover that’s important to your definition? Maybe, do I see gods as tangible or symbolic. To me, they are more symbolic. The different pantheons make it ‘easy’ to call upon the ‘correct’ deity to assist in workings, but as for a ‘creator/s’, an ‘overall’ deity, those ‘tangible’ gods, I claim those that I can not name, those that I hold in reverence , those that I see as the ‘great judges’, the ones that hold the judges’ gavels. I see two distinct groupings to classify ‘gods’. One, is the great pantheons over time. those gods with names and places, histories and personalities. The second grouping, those gods with no names. The gods that created everything that HAVE been here since the beginning of time. Those ‘higher powers’ that are always talked about but rarely defined.
For the sake of context, what is your religion? (Pagan, Christian, atheist, etc.) I am an eclectic pagan witch. I have also considered myself at different times in my life things such as Southern Baptist, Athiest, Satanist and Wiccan.
Imbrium says:
Sep 28, 2011
I take this fantastic opportunity to speak up from the shadows from which I have been lurking for some time. First and foremost- I have no idea. Everything is based on faith, that most powerful and brittle little creature.
My concept of God is that of something totally beyond any human experience. God is who is and has neither beginning nor end. God exists in all possibilities of time and space- simultaneously. The word that defines God in my own worldview is “infinite.”
With this in mind, the other answers are probably rather predictable. God is all genders and none. God is imminent and beyond. God is personal and unknowable. God is in us and at the same time beyond our comprehension. God who exists simultaneously in all possibilities of the Universe is all knowing and all powerful, yet exercises restraint so that we may discover ourselves for ourselves. There is no reason that this infinite God has not revealed his/her/itself in a wide variety of forms. They may all be facets of an infinite God.
Can an infinite God make mistakes? I doubt it. Do things happen that look like mistakes from our perspective? All the time. We can all speak to God in one way or another- the question is whether or not we hear and understand the answer.
For context- I consider myself a Christian with Druid philosophies
rheomode says:
Nov 6, 2011
To me, God is represented by anything I encounter in life that ignites within me a profound sense of wonder and awe. Maybe with a little mystery and the occasional portent mixed in.
This is a great question 🙂